I see where you’re going with this. It’s interesting to think about.

I think the crux of this argument isn’t the definition of imperialism, but of nation. Which if given the same scrutiny, could also be considered to be too vague a definition to be useful.

Asking a confederate, they probably would have said yes. Asking anyone else? Well, not a single other nation on earth recognized the confederacy, so probably no.

But I think the objective ambiguity you’re pointing at doesn’t make a word useless. A policeman shoots and kills someone. One side says murder, the other doesn’t. That’s the same fundamental ambiguity, but it’s resolved when we apply objectivity to it. Murder as a word isn’t useless, the same as imperialism.

and it further does not mean that after the beginning of the Ukrainian Civil War, that these numbers did not dramatically change in favor of secession.

Well I guess they didn’t get a chance to conduct any further polls thanks to Russian bombs and bullets. But it certainly shows that before Russia started murdering people, there wasn’t support for secession among Russian speakers.

I both fail to see the relevance of the point nor do I think linking a Ukrainian-state affiliated source drawing on a poll based in Kiev is particularly compelling evidence.

And now I’ll just point back at my previous comment. I guess I was right, there is no evidence I can post that will successfully challenge your belief. Because if it doesn’t say what you want it to say, it’s not an acceptable source.

And you know what, at least I gave you the benefit of the doubt and took the effort to engage you with real sources and evidence. You couldn’t even give me the same courtesy.

I want to remain on speaking terms because I don’t believe you are acting in bad faith but I need a break from this thread so I’m going to bounce out. Wishing you a good day regardless.

united states congress voted to ban weapons shipments to ukraine in 2018 because they were afraid that the nazi elements in ukraine would provoke a conflict w russia

I’m confused. You claimed that weapon shipments to Ukraine were banned, but the evidence you posted says that they were approved with a provision that they couldn’t be supplied to Azov. Which is fair.

I’d also like to point out that you seem to imply that Russia doesn’t have its own fair share of Nazi’s. Are we going to ignore the existence of Wagner?

Maybe the only silver lining of this war is that many Nazi’s on both sides have been killed.

How so?

Pathetic. Truly.

Did that comment make you feel good? How sad.

This is always how it ends with the imperialist argument, trying to frame it as not imperialist and then back pedaling to implying that imperialism is good because actually the other guys are imperialist by MY definition of what imperialism is, not by Lenin’s “narrow” (lol) definition.

What are you talking about?

I never back pedaled. I believe the Russian invasion of Ukraine is imperialism. It fits the definition, which I will repeat.

The extension of a nation’s authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political dominance over other nations.

And to clarify regarding Lenin, I believe he wrote that wars of imperialism are inevitable under capitalism, not that they are exclusive to capitalist countries. I’m sure you’re up to date on your theory, so please correct me if I’m wrong.

well I won’t believe what you tell me so I’ll just keep on telling others the same thing that’s been debunked a million times”

You’re making my point for me.

What Russian lie about the war do you think you can regurgitate that I haven’t heard already?

What evidence of Russian imperialism can I present to you that you don’t already consider “debunked a million times”.

I acknowledge that I am entrenched. I acknowledge that I have bias based on personal experience. That acknowledgement actually gives me the ability to reconsider my position if I was presented with good enough evidence.

If you don’t acknowledge what prevents you from changing your opinion, you will never know how to change it.

I don’t think you acknowledge your own entrenchment, I think you simply believe you are right. With that belief, how will you ever accept something that tells you that you’re wrong?

Explain how I can prove that there is not a teapot orbiting Jupiter right now and then I will understand how I can argue against a bunch of claims you’ve regurgitated without evidence.

I shouldn’t have to prove Santa doesn’t exist simply because you claim he does.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)

already admitted lying about many things

And the Kremlin is a famously honest place.

this is a fact in writing available to the public for viewing

Then why can’t I find it?

and you should be asking yourself why/how you believe the propaganda anyways

I always do, can you say the same?

As you mentioned Donbass, I’ll make three arguments with some evidence:

1. The majority of people in the Donbass did not support seperatism:

https://www.pravda.com.ua/articles/2019/04/12/7211983/

2. While I agree the repeal of the language law was unnecessary and ill timed (and Ukraine was even advised against it by the EU), it did not amount to suppression of minorities. If you define a minority in Eastern Ukraine as a Russian speaker, they are in fact a majority. When Russia started the seperatist uprising, they did not defend Russian speakers against western Ukrainian speakers, they forced the minority of Russian speaking Ukrainian seperatists to fight against the majority of Russian speaking Ukrainians who wished to remain part of Ukraine.

https://www.husj.harvard.edu/articles/language-status-and-state-loyalty-in-ukraine

3. While pro-Russian misinformation often talks about CIA maidan operatives and NATO cyborg mercenaries, the seperatist movement which became Russia’s causus belli for the full scale invasion was completely reliant on Russian state funded ultra nationalist paramilitaries and regular Russian army volunteers on “vacation” as a fifth column:

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/04/23/10-years-later-russian-volunteer-fighters-recall-fueling-the-war-in-donbas-a84917

I think we’re both going to have to agree that we believe different propaganda.

You’re going to dismiss anything I post as “Western” fiction, and I’m going to dismiss anything you post as Russian misinformation.

I can’t address your point for the same reason I can’t refute that a teapot is currently orbiting Jupiter.

If I’m honest, it seems to me that you believe an evil in the context of a “bigger” evil is actually good.

I can’t accept that. Russia’s imperialism is evil, just like US imperialism is evil. I won’t defend or accept either.

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this.

Respectfully, how can you not see that your response is simply:

“If I ignore everything you wrote, and if you simply agree with what I want you to believe, I’m actually correct”.

Rereading your original post, it also seems to imply that if Russia was richer (remember that it is not a socialist nation, the Russian economy does run on finance capital), you would be happy to classify its actions as imperialism.

Based on this, out of principle should we not oppose these actions which are fundamentally unjust regardless of who is committing them?

I think this is really just a semantic argument because you seem to be writing specifically with Lenin’s rather narrow definition of imperialism in mind.

If we go by the common understanding of imperialism which has been in use for at least a century before Lenin even picked up a pen:

The extension of a nation’s authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political dominance over other nations.

You can absolutely classify the aggression the Russian Federation inflicts on former Soviet states as imperialism.

rather than continuously encircled with missiles pointing directly at Moscow

Would Finland have joined NATO if Russia didn’t invade Ukraine?

Does their voluntary entry into a defensive alliance constitute an “encirclement”? Do they not have a right to conduct their own diplomacy as they see fit?

Furthermore, when both Russia and NATO agree that MAD is a legitimate defensive measure, can either argue in good faith that “stationing” missiles is aggression? Russia points missiles at NATO nations, NATO points them back, both blocs openly agree that this is what has prevented nuclear war from breaking out (so far).

Finally, while I don’t completely agree with the conflation of the US and NATO, I think we can agree that the US as an imperialist power has absolutely taken every measure it can to sabotage communist states. However should Russia not respect the sovereignty of smaller nations surrounding it? Based on the actions of Russia towards former Soviet states who remained “neutral”, joining NATO seems to be the only way for them to prevent a Russian invasion.

That’s fair.

I mean those Russians are volunteering to murder Ukrainians for money.

“NATO made me bomb all those hospitals”.

You guys unironically use the exact same rhetoric Israel uses to justify what it does to Palestinians to defend Russian aggression in Ukraine because you incorrectly believe Russia is a balancing power to “the West” instead of just another flavour of imperialist, authoritarian oppressors.

Would you also agree most Russians are responsible for the invasion of Ukraine?

The only war is class war.

The father is definitely a piece of shit for having a child at 70. A fucking geriatric raw dogging his sugar baby (I guess no protection was part of the terms?) is supremely irresponsible.

The only relationship he’s gonna have with that kid is as a ghost.

A financial bubble about to pop?

I don’t know where you’re getting your ball gowns