Comrade, this is a reactionary viewpoint. Marxism is not a moral philosophy. Arguments against capitalism are not based on the idea that private property or certain tools are “morally impure.”
Then what is inherently wrong with slop for a meme? There’s plenty to criticize from a materialist standpoint, but it’s important that we maintain that standpoint.
I think this usage of gen AI is bad because it produces pure slop and further normalises gen AI slop even in leftist circles. I think AI-slop is bad due to the resources required to produce it as well as it helping advance the legitimisation of gen-AI “art”, which alleviates pressure on large companies to avoid it, which then leads to them using gen AI slop instead of something produced by artists.
I think “slop” for memes are bad because memes have potential to be more than mere brainrot, but since the medium is part of the message and the medium of AI-slop sends a message that the contents are so unserious the creator could not even be bothered to do the bare minimum of work, then the content can be dismissed immediately - It makes for bad agitprop.
I am not against all AI all the time. I am against frivolous usage of something that fucks up the climate, requires the construction of massive data centres - especially during a time where all resources ought to be directed towards climate change - and I think we have to be mindful of how automation fucks up the job market, while we live in a world where it is a bad thing when people have to do less work.
So, if someone generates an image on their laptop using solar power, using locally run hardware, is it still inherently wrong? What is the advantage to artisinally fashioning a meme with the same message, when memes are inherently a low-effort, mass-produced form of social expression?
So, if someone generates an image on their laptop using solar power, using locally run hardware, is it still inherently wrong?
It is not inherently wrong. In your use case I would have less issue with it.
What is the advantage to artisinally fashioning a meme with the same message, when memes are inherently a low-effort, mass-produced form of social expression?
I do not mean to be rude, but I struggle to see how I did not answer this with the “the medium is part of the message” part.
A fancy drawing tells me the person could afford to go to art school. They’re rich, and their experiences won’t match up with mine.
A crude drawing, a diffusion, a movie screenshot, or a comic edit, tells me that person is poor, and just like me, a proletarian. Maybe they have a job and can’t afford to waste time making fancy drawings. That’s the people whose voices I want to hear.
The petit bourgeois are vastly overrepresented on social media, it’s by design, to keep the proletariat down and silenced. Comics that are newly drawn are not memes, but fakes trying to capitalize & rent seek on the success of real memes. A real meme is low effort. The whole idea behind memes is that the oppressed can speak through them. That’s what makes them relatable.
I’m trying to get you to formulate a more materialist answer to opposing AI. The AI question isn’t really settled in Marxism yet, but it’s essentially a tool.
Cowbee, im sorry, but as you yourself say this isn’t a settled question at all. There is some common ground we can agree on, but after that there’s many different assertions one can make, all with decent reasoning behind. Those assertions can then be related to in a few reasonable ways as well.
What we can agree on is that most gen-ai right now is not made with locally run models using renewable energy and the data used to train those models does come from massive data centers. There are people using locally run models and there’s probably someone doing something renewable and there’s some who have their own smaller models that dont rely on data centres, but they are quite far from being the norm.
So unless otherwise stated I assume it is an average user of an average gen-ai.
Then the other assertion is that people find it easier to dismiss AI-slop - easier even than some meme, which means AI slop makes for poor agitprop. At this point there is plenty to be pointed towards going for and against this assertion, so its not settled in any real way. As such, I doubt we are able to come to a consensus at the moment.
Another assertion is the one I made about normalisation. If there is anything that can be solved thru discussion at the moment it might be that, but honestly it isn’t the big reason im against it, since normalisation is only bad under current circumstances in my eyes.
I found them to be disingenuous with the way they engaged and I found their slop annoying, but their latest comment was reasonable, which made me reevaluate the interaction. I also just threw a lot of insults at someone misusing “ad hominem” because I think that’s a funny bit, but that action put me in a mudslinging mindset.
I can call you names if you feel like it would give you some catharsis
Maybe. I saw they mentioned being Indian so I might charitably chalk that one up to tone not carrying well across text at the best of times, add in a bit extra cultural distance and it gets really hit or miss I find. I could see it going either way
Youre using a slopified yes/no meme. And there’s hundreds, just use another than the Drake one.
edit: Edited to be less antagonistic.
Comrade, this is a reactionary viewpoint. Marxism is not a moral philosophy. Arguments against capitalism are not based on the idea that private property or certain tools are “morally impure.”
I’m not arguing from some standpoint of AI slop being “morally impure”.
Then what is inherently wrong with slop for a meme? There’s plenty to criticize from a materialist standpoint, but it’s important that we maintain that standpoint.
I think this usage of gen AI is bad because it produces pure slop and further normalises gen AI slop even in leftist circles. I think AI-slop is bad due to the resources required to produce it as well as it helping advance the legitimisation of gen-AI “art”, which alleviates pressure on large companies to avoid it, which then leads to them using gen AI slop instead of something produced by artists.
I think “slop” for memes are bad because memes have potential to be more than mere brainrot, but since the medium is part of the message and the medium of AI-slop sends a message that the contents are so unserious the creator could not even be bothered to do the bare minimum of work, then the content can be dismissed immediately - It makes for bad agitprop.
I am not against all AI all the time. I am against frivolous usage of something that fucks up the climate, requires the construction of massive data centres - especially during a time where all resources ought to be directed towards climate change - and I think we have to be mindful of how automation fucks up the job market, while we live in a world where it is a bad thing when people have to do less work.
So, if someone generates an image on their laptop using solar power, using locally run hardware, is it still inherently wrong? What is the advantage to artisinally fashioning a meme with the same message, when memes are inherently a low-effort, mass-produced form of social expression?
It is not inherently wrong. In your use case I would have less issue with it.
I do not mean to be rude, but I struggle to see how I did not answer this with the “the medium is part of the message” part.
Yes, the medium is part of the message:
A fancy drawing tells me the person could afford to go to art school. They’re rich, and their experiences won’t match up with mine.
A crude drawing, a diffusion, a movie screenshot, or a comic edit, tells me that person is poor, and just like me, a proletarian. Maybe they have a job and can’t afford to waste time making fancy drawings. That’s the people whose voices I want to hear.
The petit bourgeois are vastly overrepresented on social media, it’s by design, to keep the proletariat down and silenced. Comics that are newly drawn are not memes, but fakes trying to capitalize & rent seek on the success of real memes. A real meme is low effort. The whole idea behind memes is that the oppressed can speak through them. That’s what makes them relatable.
I’m trying to get you to formulate a more materialist answer to opposing AI. The AI question isn’t really settled in Marxism yet, but it’s essentially a tool.
Cowbee, im sorry, but as you yourself say this isn’t a settled question at all. There is some common ground we can agree on, but after that there’s many different assertions one can make, all with decent reasoning behind. Those assertions can then be related to in a few reasonable ways as well.
What we can agree on is that most gen-ai right now is not made with locally run models using renewable energy and the data used to train those models does come from massive data centers. There are people using locally run models and there’s probably someone doing something renewable and there’s some who have their own smaller models that dont rely on data centres, but they are quite far from being the norm.
So unless otherwise stated I assume it is an average user of an average gen-ai.
Then the other assertion is that people find it easier to dismiss AI-slop - easier even than some meme, which means AI slop makes for poor agitprop. At this point there is plenty to be pointed towards going for and against this assertion, so its not settled in any real way. As such, I doubt we are able to come to a consensus at the moment.
Another assertion is the one I made about normalisation. If there is anything that can be solved thru discussion at the moment it might be that, but honestly it isn’t the big reason im against it, since normalisation is only bad under current circumstances in my eyes.
Kindly stop being needlessly aggressive.
If not, please block me and direct your comments towards some other place.
I can think of a reason why you are so angry at this meme. But, not going to ask about your nationality or POV on such things, to not escalate.
I’ll block you to avoid that escalation
Alright, my apologies.
What are you doing? Why are you acting like this? I don’t care if you’re right, you’re acting like shit.
My bad. Appreciate the callout.
…Wait, really? Holy shit, that never works. We’re good, big dawg.
I found them to be disingenuous with the way they engaged and I found their slop annoying, but their latest comment was reasonable, which made me reevaluate the interaction. I also just threw a lot of insults at someone misusing “ad hominem” because I think that’s a funny bit, but that action put me in a mudslinging mindset.
I can call you names if you feel like it would give you some catharsis
Maybe. I saw they mentioned being Indian so I might charitably chalk that one up to tone not carrying well across text at the best of times, add in a bit extra cultural distance and it gets really hit or miss I find. I could see it going either way
Yeah, I think its me misinterpreting them. The last message made me reevaluate.