Trump is fine with Ukraine attacking Russia, that is why they provoked the war in the first place. The problem is the consequences of the war on Iran, which is now becoming unmanageable for the US and is risking global economic crisis. Russia has the means to alleviate some of this, and the US has interest in maintaining the war while lowering sanctions. Ukraine is caught in the middle, as is the fate of all vassals when the wind blows the other direction.
That is all true.
My view was Zelenski still does what he’s told even if Ukraine is caught in the middle.
He doesn’t care about his country, and in the same way Trump doesn’t care about his country.
Both will get richer screwing over their own population.
That’s true to an extent, but they do end up fighting each other in instances like this, where the US wants Russian gas to proliferate and Ukraine wants Russia to suffer economically to hamper the war effort.
That is typical Trump wanting it both ways, having sanctions and at the same time make an exception for himself if it’s opportune.
Ukraine wants Russia to suffer economically to hamper the war effort.
As I said, I believe this is solely donefor the US.
I’m convinced zelenski doesn’t believe for one moment that this will hamper the war effort.
It hasn’t one bit and it won’t.
More of the same hurting Russia by an expendable proxy.
I don’t see why the US would shut off Starlink if they didn’t want to discipline Ukraine for pressing the attack. Of course Trump wants it both ways, he wants Russian gas and he wants Russia weakened so it can be economically dominated and balkanized, something the west has salivated over since the 90s. However, these two goals stand in conflict with each other, Russia needs to be able to export gas if the world is to purchase it! And Ukraine doesn’t want that, so they press the attack against their masters, and now are facing the consequences for disobedience. The vassal / master relationship isn’t perfectly subservient, it has tension and counterplay and sometimes the vassal gets disciplined for it.
They didn’t ‘shut off Starlink’
You can look for the elaborate technical explanation but AFAIK they only affected certain movements over a certain speed and they only did it for 1 night.
At best this is a mild threat.
This non-event, which was over before the western mouthpieces even could report on it, IMO is not having ‘consequences for disobedience’.
The US could do a lot, fact is they haven’t stopped helping them not even for a day despite the theatrics and threats.
They have no reason to.
Musk also made threats before about stopping his service but nothing happened.
The ukros wouldn’t even be able to hit all these facilities without the US supplying them with everything. Not just guiding and targeting but the long range missiles themselves.
Which used to be a red line but not anymore since NATO relentlessly insists on escalating further.
So here we disagree, you say it’s Ukraine who doesn’t want Russia to sell gas while I say it does absolutely nothing concrete for them.
Only for their masters in the long term.
There will not be less bombs or Russian troops because they blow up some infrastructure.
They could’ve hit military targets.
Zelenski may cry about this deal but not because it hurts the war effort.
What’s hurt is his ego. His master humiliates him by dealing with the enemy and he has to suck it up like a good little vassal.
Exposing him as a proxy to the world.
I’m aware that Ukraine is dependent on the US, and that the US is still supplying them. Humiliating Zelensky is still a form of vassal discipline, which is my point. The US wants Ukraine to attack Russian infrastructure, military targets, etc, but not gas.
Trump is fine with Ukraine attacking Russia, that is why they provoked the war in the first place. The problem is the consequences of the war on Iran, which is now becoming unmanageable for the US and is risking global economic crisis. Russia has the means to alleviate some of this, and the US has interest in maintaining the war while lowering sanctions. Ukraine is caught in the middle, as is the fate of all vassals when the wind blows the other direction.
That is all true.
My view was Zelenski still does what he’s told even if Ukraine is caught in the middle.
He doesn’t care about his country, and in the same way Trump doesn’t care about his country.
Both will get richer screwing over their own population.
That’s true to an extent, but they do end up fighting each other in instances like this, where the US wants Russian gas to proliferate and Ukraine wants Russia to suffer economically to hamper the war effort.
That is typical Trump wanting it both ways, having sanctions and at the same time make an exception for himself if it’s opportune.
As I said, I believe this is solely donefor the US.
I’m convinced zelenski doesn’t believe for one moment that this will hamper the war effort.
It hasn’t one bit and it won’t.
More of the same hurting Russia by an expendable proxy.
I don’t see why the US would shut off Starlink if they didn’t want to discipline Ukraine for pressing the attack. Of course Trump wants it both ways, he wants Russian gas and he wants Russia weakened so it can be economically dominated and balkanized, something the west has salivated over since the 90s. However, these two goals stand in conflict with each other, Russia needs to be able to export gas if the world is to purchase it! And Ukraine doesn’t want that, so they press the attack against their masters, and now are facing the consequences for disobedience. The vassal / master relationship isn’t perfectly subservient, it has tension and counterplay and sometimes the vassal gets disciplined for it.
They didn’t ‘shut off Starlink’
You can look for the elaborate technical explanation but AFAIK they only affected certain movements over a certain speed and they only did it for 1 night.
At best this is a mild threat.
This non-event, which was over before the western mouthpieces even could report on it, IMO is not having ‘consequences for disobedience’.
The US could do a lot, fact is they haven’t stopped helping them not even for a day despite the theatrics and threats.
They have no reason to.
Musk also made threats before about stopping his service but nothing happened.
The ukros wouldn’t even be able to hit all these facilities without the US supplying them with everything. Not just guiding and targeting but the long range missiles themselves.
Which used to be a red line but not anymore since NATO relentlessly insists on escalating further.
So here we disagree, you say it’s Ukraine who doesn’t want Russia to sell gas while I say it does absolutely nothing concrete for them.
Only for their masters in the long term. There will not be less bombs or Russian troops because they blow up some infrastructure.
They could’ve hit military targets. Zelenski may cry about this deal but not because it hurts the war effort.
What’s hurt is his ego. His master humiliates him by dealing with the enemy and he has to suck it up like a good little vassal.
Exposing him as a proxy to the world.
I’m aware that Ukraine is dependent on the US, and that the US is still supplying them. Humiliating Zelensky is still a form of vassal discipline, which is my point. The US wants Ukraine to attack Russian infrastructure, military targets, etc, but not gas.
We’re almost there :)
The US wants Ukraine to attack Russian infrastructure, military targets, etc, but not gas (at this particular moment).
Yes. That’s my point.