I get this is a meme, but it is trying to talk about something serious. It’s worth saying that fatalist arguments are actually beneficial to liberalism and capitalism. Capitalism is not going to kill us all, humans are exceptionally durable. Capitalism intends to kill us all though, whether through the dehumanization it requires to function or its inability to contend with the material limitations of reality. Climate change mitigation is a discussion around minimising the harm this system causes while it dies, and liberals often subscribe to fatalist narratives because they dont truly imagine a world that is not capitalist as one worth living in.
Yep, that’s why we need to have revolutionary optimism. Right now, incredible strides are being made by socialist countries like China to combat climate change and push for electrification and sustainability.
Calling a country where the means of production are controlled by the upper classes “socialist” is a stretch even before we consider their mixed economy and rampant capitalism.
Public ownership is the principle aspect of their economy, and a working class party has domination over their state. The large firms and key industries are overwhelmingly publicly owned, with massive state owned enterprises forming the backbone of their economy. Private, cooperative, and joint-stock ownership covers mostly the small and medium firms, and the larger of these are heavily controlled and influenced by the CPC.
As for being “mixed,” all economies are mixed, that doesn’t mean we can’t identify what the principle aspect of the economy is. Socialism isn’t a “pure” mode of production, and neither is capitalism, you don’t have X% capitalism, Y% socialism, etc. That’s not how modes of production work.
Someone’s got their head buried in the sand. The number of critical problems that are gonna come to a head in the next 20 years that could collectively degrade the biosphere beyond supporting a substantial human population is nuts. It’s not fatalist to say that billions could die and it’s no consolation to the dead and their loved ones that “humans are exceptionally durable”.
Wow, two pompous dudes who assume they know everything but don’t even bother to read.
Nothing you just talked about was said by me. Doomer shit, as in saying “all life will end” or even “all human life will end,” is in fact liberal, settler, bs. It presumes that a world that is not conducive to human life as it exists is not one worth imagining and especially not building. It is a convenient dead end that absolves you of the responsibility to participate in mitigation and reconstruction because, of course, it’s too late and even if it isn’t it will be and capitalism is powerful enough to apparently sustain a collapse of supply chains. It is foolish.
Nowhere did I say people won’t die, I emphasised that they do and actually value the lives of people who will more than some dude who does fucking nothing because I at least recognize that there is a way to mitigate the amount of people who do die. Additionally, I acknowledged that this is not limited to human life. Capitalism will not destroy all life on this planet, this is straight up reality. No, human systems are not equal in power to fucking cosmic events.
Capitalism does try to survive despite the obvious reality that a system dependent on infinite resources cannot exist in a finite material world. It will do so by killing more and more life until it dies, and it will die whether that is from human action itself or the eventuality of a world that refuses to sustain its existence through environmental change and yes, the collapse of crucial ecosystems.
I say humans are durable because we are, do you have any fucking clue how insane this way of life is in the context of life on this planet? Do you have any idea how close humans have come to extinction in the past exactly because of ecological change? You don’t, you refuse to because all of that is terribly inconvenient for someone who doesn’t want life to change.
Grow up and help. I won’t read a response as it’s obvious you didn’t grant me that level of respect.
No, Capitalism will not make the Earth uninhabitable. It will kill very many things the longer it is part of our world, but you are subscribing to a liberal fatalist narrative that constructs the future as definitively destroyed because it does not resemble the world we live in. It’s doomer shit that is painfully white.
How you got, “we don’t need to end capitalism” I have no responsibility for. If I say it isnt infinitely powerful but must end as quickly as possible, what exactly do you think I’m advocating for?
I think that claiming we have no responsibility to plan ahead because we’re all doomed, so we can just “chill the fuck out and do unreasonable amounts of drugs” is more wishful thinking and vibes than anything
Kill the wealthy, or there is no future and all your ‘plans’ are make believe bullshit with a victim blaming edge. If that is not step 0, you are not serious, fuck off.
Or chill the fuck out and die with dignity, stop wasting my unfortunately limited time and yours. Smoke em while you got em. Nothing matters.
These are the only not-bullshit options. What you do after killing the oligarchs is the only place where any plan that fixes anything can matter for shit.
I could maybe get one, if I’m lucky. There are thousands. It’s not many, but I dont think there are thousands of people who arent completely chicken shit, and I’m not willing to throw away my few years of abusing drugs for people who wouldn’t even consider doing the same for me, especially if it wouldn’t be enough to actually matter.
My brother in Christ, you people are talking about capitalism as though it were a god. Have none of you seriously thought about like, doing something even when the world is less livable? Do you think everyone will just lay down and die because the world isn’t as nice as it is today?
This is not “wishful.” This is fucking reality. Right this moment, you are working on a fantasy that is only appealing to settlers who would rather die than live in a world they are not comfortable in.
So fucking tired of liberals here insisting that people should die because they only pretend to want to give up this way of life.
You’re talking about earth as if its a guarantee, not an incredibly fragile complicated thing.
Best case scenario, we fix everything today², the next century or three is going to be rougher than you can really imagine. If it’s not already too late to salvage-and it may be; we don’t know for sure. Every moment we stay on this course things get worse. There’s a lot we dont understand and every new revelation seems to amount to us being more fucked than we thought.
We cannot fix anything before killing most/all of the oligarchs. They wont let us. No amount of cutting back and going green and switching to passive systems with society built around vegan electric trains matters a single fuck while oligarchs are still poisoning every option and building new coal plants to power the machine that murders truth. Portions of the planet are already becoming uninhabitable.
Your insults are nonsense. You are not serious. Your hysterical climate denialism is an unwillingness to choose between killing the fuckers making the problem so the rest of us can crack down and fix our shit, or a graceful death. You’re disgusting insistence that I kill myself¹ while insisting ‘I’m not doing that and that my slave morality should be coddled’ is absolutely devoid of virtue. Kill yourself if you like, but don’t insist that those who dont are random words people called you in a mean voice, shitlib.
¹the current plan. Hence the drugs. I don’t love any of you enough to die violently for a world I’m not gonna see unless i think the rest of you would follow through, and you wouldn’t.
²go real hard on walkability and electric trains. Cars straight up get disassembled where they’re currently parked and scrapped via cargo bike. Meat is off the shelves. No more commercial flights. No more disposable bullshit. Every spare hand to reclamation and remediation projects. Everything switched over to passive systems in all new construction. Maybe no more concrete.
I actually had to read all of that because I cannoy believe someone is this intentionally misunderstanding. You seriously have to actually read about the shit you talk about because your usable knowledge is obviously very slim despite your confidence.
You are fighting people who are not in this comment thread. Not only did I never say capitalists (no, not “oligarchs” like this is about individuals and not a system) should not be killed, I asked you to actually think about why youre making this incomprehensible assumption in the context of my comments. What do you think I mean when I say capitalism is both fragile and an immediate threat? Slave morality? You’re not even talking about anything at that point; it’s so contained to your own misunderstanding of what has been said here.
It is incredible to hear someone so dedicated to the settler way of life call me a lib. Blocked.
I get this is a meme, but it is trying to talk about something serious. It’s worth saying that fatalist arguments are actually beneficial to liberalism and capitalism. Capitalism is not going to kill us all, humans are exceptionally durable. Capitalism intends to kill us all though, whether through the dehumanization it requires to function or its inability to contend with the material limitations of reality. Climate change mitigation is a discussion around minimising the harm this system causes while it dies, and liberals often subscribe to fatalist narratives because they dont truly imagine a world that is not capitalist as one worth living in.
Yep, that’s why we need to have revolutionary optimism. Right now, incredible strides are being made by socialist countries like China to combat climate change and push for electrification and sustainability.
Calling a country where the means of production are controlled by the upper classes “socialist” is a stretch even before we consider their mixed economy and rampant capitalism.
Public ownership is the principle aspect of their economy, and a working class party has domination over their state. The large firms and key industries are overwhelmingly publicly owned, with massive state owned enterprises forming the backbone of their economy. Private, cooperative, and joint-stock ownership covers mostly the small and medium firms, and the larger of these are heavily controlled and influenced by the CPC.
As for being “mixed,” all economies are mixed, that doesn’t mean we can’t identify what the principle aspect of the economy is. Socialism isn’t a “pure” mode of production, and neither is capitalism, you don’t have X% capitalism, Y% socialism, etc. That’s not how modes of production work.
Saying the public has ownership implies that they have some control of it which certainly isn’t true. It’s more like a Palace economy than anything.
The government is democratically run, and the working class is in control of it. It absolutely is true.
That’s just delusional.
Someone’s got their head buried in the sand. The number of critical problems that are gonna come to a head in the next 20 years that could collectively degrade the biosphere beyond supporting a substantial human population is nuts. It’s not fatalist to say that billions could die and it’s no consolation to the dead and their loved ones that “humans are exceptionally durable”.
Wow, two pompous dudes who assume they know everything but don’t even bother to read.
Nothing you just talked about was said by me. Doomer shit, as in saying “all life will end” or even “all human life will end,” is in fact liberal, settler, bs. It presumes that a world that is not conducive to human life as it exists is not one worth imagining and especially not building. It is a convenient dead end that absolves you of the responsibility to participate in mitigation and reconstruction because, of course, it’s too late and even if it isn’t it will be and capitalism is powerful enough to apparently sustain a collapse of supply chains. It is foolish.
Nowhere did I say people won’t die, I emphasised that they do and actually value the lives of people who will more than some dude who does fucking nothing because I at least recognize that there is a way to mitigate the amount of people who do die. Additionally, I acknowledged that this is not limited to human life. Capitalism will not destroy all life on this planet, this is straight up reality. No, human systems are not equal in power to fucking cosmic events.
Capitalism does try to survive despite the obvious reality that a system dependent on infinite resources cannot exist in a finite material world. It will do so by killing more and more life until it dies, and it will die whether that is from human action itself or the eventuality of a world that refuses to sustain its existence through environmental change and yes, the collapse of crucial ecosystems.
I say humans are durable because we are, do you have any fucking clue how insane this way of life is in the context of life on this planet? Do you have any idea how close humans have come to extinction in the past exactly because of ecological change? You don’t, you refuse to because all of that is terribly inconvenient for someone who doesn’t want life to change.
Grow up and help. I won’t read a response as it’s obvious you didn’t grant me that level of respect.
Settle down, Beavis
Capitalism will make the earth uninhabitable. That will kill us all. If you care about the future, you are thinking about how to murder an oligarch.
Any other kind of ‘planning’ for the future is delusional clown shit. Just chill the fuck out and do unreasonable amounts of drugs.
No, Capitalism will not make the Earth uninhabitable. It will kill very many things the longer it is part of our world, but you are subscribing to a liberal fatalist narrative that constructs the future as definitively destroyed because it does not resemble the world we live in. It’s doomer shit that is painfully white.
How you got, “we don’t need to end capitalism” I have no responsibility for. If I say it isnt infinitely powerful but must end as quickly as possible, what exactly do you think I’m advocating for?
Oh you’re just basing everything on wishful thinking and vibes. Okay.
I think that claiming we have no responsibility to plan ahead because we’re all doomed, so we can just “chill the fuck out and do unreasonable amounts of drugs” is more wishful thinking and vibes than anything
Kill the wealthy, or there is no future and all your ‘plans’ are make believe bullshit with a victim blaming edge. If that is not step 0, you are not serious, fuck off.
Or chill the fuck out and die with dignity, stop wasting my unfortunately limited time and yours. Smoke em while you got em. Nothing matters.
These are the only not-bullshit options. What you do after killing the oligarchs is the only place where any plan that fixes anything can matter for shit.
I could maybe get one, if I’m lucky. There are thousands. It’s not many, but I dont think there are thousands of people who arent completely chicken shit, and I’m not willing to throw away my few years of abusing drugs for people who wouldn’t even consider doing the same for me, especially if it wouldn’t be enough to actually matter.
My brother in Christ, you people are talking about capitalism as though it were a god. Have none of you seriously thought about like, doing something even when the world is less livable? Do you think everyone will just lay down and die because the world isn’t as nice as it is today?
This is not “wishful.” This is fucking reality. Right this moment, you are working on a fantasy that is only appealing to settlers who would rather die than live in a world they are not comfortable in.
So fucking tired of liberals here insisting that people should die because they only pretend to want to give up this way of life.
You’re talking about earth as if its a guarantee, not an incredibly fragile complicated thing.
Best case scenario, we fix everything today², the next century or three is going to be rougher than you can really imagine. If it’s not already too late to salvage-and it may be; we don’t know for sure. Every moment we stay on this course things get worse. There’s a lot we dont understand and every new revelation seems to amount to us being more fucked than we thought.
We cannot fix anything before killing most/all of the oligarchs. They wont let us. No amount of cutting back and going green and switching to passive systems with society built around vegan electric trains matters a single fuck while oligarchs are still poisoning every option and building new coal plants to power the machine that murders truth. Portions of the planet are already becoming uninhabitable.
Your insults are nonsense. You are not serious. Your hysterical climate denialism is an unwillingness to choose between killing the fuckers making the problem so the rest of us can crack down and fix our shit, or a graceful death. You’re disgusting insistence that I kill myself¹ while insisting ‘I’m not doing that and that my slave morality should be coddled’ is absolutely devoid of virtue. Kill yourself if you like, but don’t insist that those who dont are random words people called you in a mean voice, shitlib.
¹the current plan. Hence the drugs. I don’t love any of you enough to die violently for a world I’m not gonna see unless i think the rest of you would follow through, and you wouldn’t.
²go real hard on walkability and electric trains. Cars straight up get disassembled where they’re currently parked and scrapped via cargo bike. Meat is off the shelves. No more commercial flights. No more disposable bullshit. Every spare hand to reclamation and remediation projects. Everything switched over to passive systems in all new construction. Maybe no more concrete.
I actually had to read all of that because I cannoy believe someone is this intentionally misunderstanding. You seriously have to actually read about the shit you talk about because your usable knowledge is obviously very slim despite your confidence.
You are fighting people who are not in this comment thread. Not only did I never say capitalists (no, not “oligarchs” like this is about individuals and not a system) should not be killed, I asked you to actually think about why youre making this incomprehensible assumption in the context of my comments. What do you think I mean when I say capitalism is both fragile and an immediate threat? Slave morality? You’re not even talking about anything at that point; it’s so contained to your own misunderstanding of what has been said here.
It is incredible to hear someone so dedicated to the settler way of life call me a lib. Blocked.