Yes it is. If people didn’t buy things that are packaged in plastic, the companies won’t sell things packaged in plastic.
Alternatives are available right now, they just either a) cost more or b) take more time, or c) you would have to do without
By making the choice to go with the cheaper/easier option, and by doing so are giving them permission to keep doing it.
“BUT MAH COST OF LIVING” this isn’t a valid excuse for doing something you know is bad.
If the more environmentally friendly option was the cheapest, it would already be the default. You have to choose cheap or environmentally friendly, and accept the consequences of your choices.
Forcing companies to not use plastic packaging will not somehow make the same product available at the same price. They will raise prices because the alternative is going to cost them more or again… they would already be doing it. Those people would then “die” anyways as the prices rise.
Your logic is shit.
People can definitely continue to stay alive with less polluting personal choices, but choose not to every single day., I rarely see broke vegetarians for example, despite a true vegetarian diet (meat replacement products are expensive and do not count) being significantly cheaper than a meat based one and MASSIVELY more environmentally friendly.
I’m not here to argue. I think you’re conflating multiple things here. Vegetarianism is lower pollution yes, but it’s still delivered via truck or ship, it’s still usually plastic wrapped, etc. Pollution is systemically embedded in our entire society and economy, so blaming consumers is only blaming the smallest part of the problem.
If everyone in the world tomorrow stopped buying anything that was polluting… They’d probably starve to death. Our farms and logistics are simply not designed for this. It’s all been “optimised” for the lowest cost to companies and consumers both. The only solution is to start at the top and work your way down.
Let’s say you’re a company that sells food. You care about the environment so you switch everything to green. Electric trucks and ships. No plastic packaging. Your operating costs triple, and you fall behind all your competitors. Most customers don’t understand, don’t care, or cannot afford your more expensive products, especially in this economy. You go out of business. The only way to make it work is to reshape everything so that pollution is no longer an integral part of everything. I don’t know what that would look like though, I’m not that smart.
I don’t think you understand the level of difference in pollution associated with eating meat compared to being a vegetarian. It’s not like it only saves 10% or 20%, even accounting for transportation and the like it’s closer to a 50% reduction.
Most customers don’t understand, don’t care, or cannot afford your more expensive products, especially in this economy.
This is why it’s the fault of the customers and not the fault of the companies. That’s my entire argument. The companies didn’t make the alternative more expensive, reality makes the alternative more expensive. The fact that people choose to continue to shop on price is literally the core issue.
I feel like it’s just part of our instincts as resource hoarders. People will go for the cheapest option because it feels right and safer.
For anything else to happen, we actually have to add some structure or incentives to prioritise things differently; otherwise it’s like asking ants to swarm a carrot instead of a sugar cube. The simplest and bluntest example I can think of (in my sleep deprived state) is sin tax. This is where things like sugar and cigarettes are taxed heavily and therefore very expensive, so it directs people to healthier choices. There’s probably better options but I don’t know much about this area.
We can’t put that on companies though. We live in a democracy, if people choose not to vote for politicians that pass laws to restrict companies, that’s their choice.
It will drive up prices though, so people could already be making those choices with their purchasing and they’re not.
People being stupid is not an excuse for not being able to do the right thing.
You’re right, it’s not an excuse, but I think it’s the reason lol. If the only practical solution is systemic change, then we have to do that. I’m not good at that sort of thing though.
Actually one thing I have noticed is that the people around me notice what I do. Like if I buy the thing that is better for the environment, my friends and family ask me about it, and often they do the same thing. I know it’s not the global change you’re talking about, but just showing the people around you there are other ways has a powerful local effect.
For example, when I was healthy, I rode my bike to work every day. People noticed, but said I was crazy. Then 1 other person was inspired and did it too, and quickly we ended up with a bike club and most of the company was doing it. Then the company bought a bike shed for parking to support us. It was great. All just because I did my own thing and people noticed and thought it was a good idea. I think that’s probably the only real practical way we can influence the world as individuals.
Yes it is. If people didn’t buy things that are packaged in plastic, the companies won’t sell things packaged in plastic.
Alternatives are available right now, they just either a) cost more or b) take more time, or c) you would have to do without
By making the choice to go with the cheaper/easier option, and by doing so are giving them permission to keep doing it.
“BUT MAH COST OF LIVING” this isn’t a valid excuse for doing something you know is bad.
If the more environmentally friendly option was the cheapest, it would already be the default. You have to choose cheap or environmentally friendly, and accept the consequences of your choices.
ok I see, so only poor people deserve to die. excellent point, I hadn’t considered that
Forcing companies to not use plastic packaging will not somehow make the same product available at the same price. They will raise prices because the alternative is going to cost them more or again… they would already be doing it. Those people would then “die” anyways as the prices rise.
Your logic is shit.
People can definitely continue to stay alive with less polluting personal choices, but choose not to every single day., I rarely see broke vegetarians for example, despite a true vegetarian diet (meat replacement products are expensive and do not count) being significantly cheaper than a meat based one and MASSIVELY more environmentally friendly.
I’m not here to argue. I think you’re conflating multiple things here. Vegetarianism is lower pollution yes, but it’s still delivered via truck or ship, it’s still usually plastic wrapped, etc. Pollution is systemically embedded in our entire society and economy, so blaming consumers is only blaming the smallest part of the problem.
If everyone in the world tomorrow stopped buying anything that was polluting… They’d probably starve to death. Our farms and logistics are simply not designed for this. It’s all been “optimised” for the lowest cost to companies and consumers both. The only solution is to start at the top and work your way down.
Let’s say you’re a company that sells food. You care about the environment so you switch everything to green. Electric trucks and ships. No plastic packaging. Your operating costs triple, and you fall behind all your competitors. Most customers don’t understand, don’t care, or cannot afford your more expensive products, especially in this economy. You go out of business. The only way to make it work is to reshape everything so that pollution is no longer an integral part of everything. I don’t know what that would look like though, I’m not that smart.
I don’t think you understand the level of difference in pollution associated with eating meat compared to being a vegetarian. It’s not like it only saves 10% or 20%, even accounting for transportation and the like it’s closer to a 50% reduction.
This is why it’s the fault of the customers and not the fault of the companies. That’s my entire argument. The companies didn’t make the alternative more expensive, reality makes the alternative more expensive. The fact that people choose to continue to shop on price is literally the core issue.
I feel like it’s just part of our instincts as resource hoarders. People will go for the cheapest option because it feels right and safer.
For anything else to happen, we actually have to add some structure or incentives to prioritise things differently; otherwise it’s like asking ants to swarm a carrot instead of a sugar cube. The simplest and bluntest example I can think of (in my sleep deprived state) is sin tax. This is where things like sugar and cigarettes are taxed heavily and therefore very expensive, so it directs people to healthier choices. There’s probably better options but I don’t know much about this area.
We can’t put that on companies though. We live in a democracy, if people choose not to vote for politicians that pass laws to restrict companies, that’s their choice.
It will drive up prices though, so people could already be making those choices with their purchasing and they’re not.
People being stupid is not an excuse for not being able to do the right thing.
You’re right, it’s not an excuse, but I think it’s the reason lol. If the only practical solution is systemic change, then we have to do that. I’m not good at that sort of thing though.
Actually one thing I have noticed is that the people around me notice what I do. Like if I buy the thing that is better for the environment, my friends and family ask me about it, and often they do the same thing. I know it’s not the global change you’re talking about, but just showing the people around you there are other ways has a powerful local effect.
For example, when I was healthy, I rode my bike to work every day. People noticed, but said I was crazy. Then 1 other person was inspired and did it too, and quickly we ended up with a bike club and most of the company was doing it. Then the company bought a bike shed for parking to support us. It was great. All just because I did my own thing and people noticed and thought it was a good idea. I think that’s probably the only real practical way we can influence the world as individuals.
‘because the alternative is going to cost them more’
This is one of those things that you have to let go of. While it makes sense, it is not a guiding factor for corporate decisions.