“Cannot criticise capitalism while existing in capitalism”, “Should not criticise the British colonisation, because they built some trains in colonised India. Indians who used it cannot criticise the colonisation” logic?
I do not subscribe to that logic.
GenAI is built by capitalists, but the data n info is mostly not theirs. Ending up reliant on their tool would be the bad thing.
And tactical boycotts can be good, lime how we Indians had a period where we boycotted British products. But it had an aim. Is there a current formal aim?
That’s not what the guy is saying. He’s saying AI is the product of capitalism and you’re trying to criticize capitalism by using one of its product, which is ironic. Just make the meme yourself (no matter how it turns out) instead of using AI.
The content of the meme is not the issue here but how it is made.
It isn’t at all ironic to use tools created within the boundaries of capitalism to critique it. This is just a retread of conservatives doing the “socialism is when no iPhone” meme. Marxism is not a moral philosophy. We will not throw out all of the tools built up by capitalism when we establish socialism, we will own them collectively and run them in the interests of the working classes.
But are we there yet? Or if not then does it help when AI is being used by common people when corpos are the one controlling it? Doesn’t this justify their point that people need their AI? It’s wonderful to think AI as a tool collectively owned by the people but unfortunately that’s not the case currently.
We aren’t there, sure. That doesn’t mean any LLM generated image is inherently morally wrong or upholding capitalism, just like any hammer isn’t upholding capitalism.
Windows is owned by corpos and so is the phone you are using currently, ergo everything you do online is pro capitalist. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
Hundreds of companies have AI products, a lot of them are completely free to run on your computer. But obviously, I can’t make any kind of distinction, especially when the media is telling me all AI is bad, so I aggressively inquire and demand that all my memes are made on Linux without AI, using a computer built by a commune which cannot be connected to the Internet (all ISPs are a product of capitalism). I then send these memes by pigeon mail.
Doesn’t mean I owe them anything and you certainly wouldn’t appreciate when just one of them get the monopoly over everyone. “windows”, “ms paint” and “smart phone in my hand” sure were part of capitalism but they were made in the favor of end users cause the said users had other options to move to. The compitition kept them in check and be beneficial to society. If they were the monopoly you’d be stuck with a licence to what they think you deserve.
Bro, every reason you used can be applied to AI, except it’s a lot less monolithic and capitalistic than computers and phones.
Do you understand the dissonance? You take no issue with a whole load of things but if it’s AI, suddenly, you have a plethora of arguments. It’s pure hypocrisy imo.
Your problem isn’t what’s behind it and acting like three companies own all AI is being purposely ignorant in any case. OpenAI doesn’t own image generation.
My reasoning is for the platforms you mentioned, we both weren’t talking about AI, you started with “windows good, cause capitalism” while I gave you the reasoning behind what made windows and other things benficial to the user even under capitalism.
You wanna talk Ai? The above reasoning isn’t the only issue regarding AI, there are many other factors affected due to AI and not just “ai capitalism bad”. Ai impacts, software integrity, security, authenticity, accountability, authority, environment, infrastructure, economy, hell I’ll go as far as survival of humanity.
None of these factor were at stake when ‘windows’ ‘ms paint’ or ‘smart phone in my hand’ were in question.
He’s saying AI is the product of capitalism and you’re trying to criticize capitalism by using one of its product
This was the argument I was responding too mostly, I’m not actually saying not to use windows or ms paint, it was an exaggeration to make you understand how your point doesn’t really hold up if you put it in an other context.
The level of granularity you use to judge one tech from an other is very different. For AI, everything gets dumped into one basket and judged by the extremes, everything else is looked at case by case.
We are talking about making memes here, there’s less of a security issue about it than going to the bathroom.
This is the equivalent of saying “You can use a camera to film someone naked without their consent, so don’t ever use a camera for anything whatsoever”.
Imo, it’s just a knee jerk reaction. You see AI and you complain, you don’t actually think about it. You don’t wonder about how any other content you see was made or hold any of it to the same standards.
Cannot criticise capitalism while existing in capitalism
Not what they’re saying. Critiquing your specific use of a specific tool is not the same as critiquing participation in capitalist society or consumption of capitalist goods.
Seeing as how the comment we’re both referring to is still there for you to read and it mentions the use of AI to generate an image macro, and not any travel for any purpose on board a train in India, I’m going to give you just one guess as to what tool you think Im referring to.
You said “Critiquing your specific use of a specific tool is not the same as critiquing participation in capitalist society or consumption of capitalist goods.”
“AIGen” is a specific tool, just like “trains in india”. Your counterpoint was already addressed in the comment you replied to (the one with the trains), if you count “trains in india” as a specific tool like “AI Gen”. Hence my question.
You said “Critiquing your specific use of a specific tool is not the same as critiquing participation in capitalist society or consumption of capitalist goods.”
Yeah, I did. And in my response I also laid that out for you. Yet you somehow ignored that and instead pretend using any tool for any reason is what is being discussed now? And you’re taking the side of using any tool for any reason, so can I safely assume you assume killing people is awesome since knives are tools too and they’re used for murder sometimes? I figure that must be the case, since I described the difference between the two “tools” and the specific usecase here, yet that somehow went right past you, so it must not matter to you. Kind of fucked up of you to support people being blown up with dynamite btw. Wild you support using tools to construct F-35s and other bombs used by the imperialist warmachine.
By the way, trains aren’t tools, unless we expand the definition of tool in the context of this discussion to include all modes of transportation, and at that point it seems like an almost pointless descriptor.
“Cannot criticise capitalism while existing in capitalism”, “Should not criticise the British colonisation, because they built some trains in colonised India. Indians who used it cannot criticise the colonisation” logic?
I do not subscribe to that logic.
GenAI is built by capitalists, but the data n info is mostly not theirs. Ending up reliant on their tool would be the bad thing.
And tactical boycotts can be good, lime how we Indians had a period where we boycotted British products. But it had an aim. Is there a current formal aim?
That’s not what the guy is saying. He’s saying AI is the product of capitalism and you’re trying to criticize capitalism by using one of its product, which is ironic. Just make the meme yourself (no matter how it turns out) instead of using AI.
The content of the meme is not the issue here but how it is made.
It isn’t at all ironic to use tools created within the boundaries of capitalism to critique it. This is just a retread of conservatives doing the “socialism is when no iPhone” meme. Marxism is not a moral philosophy. We will not throw out all of the tools built up by capitalism when we establish socialism, we will own them collectively and run them in the interests of the working classes.
But are we there yet? Or if not then does it help when AI is being used by common people when corpos are the one controlling it? Doesn’t this justify their point that people need their AI? It’s wonderful to think AI as a tool collectively owned by the people but unfortunately that’s not the case currently.
We aren’t there, sure. That doesn’t mean any LLM generated image is inherently morally wrong or upholding capitalism, just like any hammer isn’t upholding capitalism.
True, but it is more of about who is pulling the strings rather than who is underneath.
How does using an LLM for a meme support capitalists in any different a way using a hammer does?
If not a local llm, then the input given and the output generated is stored and can be used by the corporates in any way they want.
Once the job is done, a hammer stays a hammer.
So if it’s local, it’s fine? There’s no problem with the fact that it’s generated, but who owns the tools, then.
Windows is owned by corpos and so is the phone you are using currently, ergo everything you do online is pro capitalist. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
Hundreds of companies have AI products, a lot of them are completely free to run on your computer. But obviously, I can’t make any kind of distinction, especially when the media is telling me all AI is bad, so I aggressively inquire and demand that all my memes are made on Linux without AI, using a computer built by a commune which cannot be connected to the Internet (all ISPs are a product of capitalism). I then send these memes by pigeon mail.
Doesn’t mean I owe them anything and you certainly wouldn’t appreciate when just one of them get the monopoly over everyone. “windows”, “ms paint” and “smart phone in my hand” sure were part of capitalism but they were made in the favor of end users cause the said users had other options to move to. The compitition kept them in check and be beneficial to society. If they were the monopoly you’d be stuck with a licence to what they think you deserve.
Bro, every reason you used can be applied to AI, except it’s a lot less monolithic and capitalistic than computers and phones.
Do you understand the dissonance? You take no issue with a whole load of things but if it’s AI, suddenly, you have a plethora of arguments. It’s pure hypocrisy imo.
Your problem isn’t what’s behind it and acting like three companies own all AI is being purposely ignorant in any case. OpenAI doesn’t own image generation.
My reasoning is for the platforms you mentioned, we both weren’t talking about AI, you started with “windows good, cause capitalism” while I gave you the reasoning behind what made windows and other things benficial to the user even under capitalism.
You wanna talk Ai? The above reasoning isn’t the only issue regarding AI, there are many other factors affected due to AI and not just “ai capitalism bad”. Ai impacts, software integrity, security, authenticity, accountability, authority, environment, infrastructure, economy, hell I’ll go as far as survival of humanity.
None of these factor were at stake when ‘windows’ ‘ms paint’ or ‘smart phone in my hand’ were in question.
This was the argument I was responding too mostly, I’m not actually saying not to use windows or ms paint, it was an exaggeration to make you understand how your point doesn’t really hold up if you put it in an other context.
The level of granularity you use to judge one tech from an other is very different. For AI, everything gets dumped into one basket and judged by the extremes, everything else is looked at case by case.
We are talking about making memes here, there’s less of a security issue about it than going to the bathroom.
This is the equivalent of saying “You can use a camera to film someone naked without their consent, so don’t ever use a camera for anything whatsoever”.
Imo, it’s just a knee jerk reaction. You see AI and you complain, you don’t actually think about it. You don’t wonder about how any other content you see was made or hold any of it to the same standards.
MS paint is a product of capitalism
Not what they’re saying. Critiquing your specific use of a specific tool is not the same as critiquing participation in capitalist society or consumption of capitalist goods.
a specific tool like “trains in india”?
Seeing as how the comment we’re both referring to is still there for you to read and it mentions the use of AI to generate an image macro, and not any travel for any purpose on board a train in India, I’m going to give you just one guess as to what tool you think Im referring to.
You said “Critiquing your specific use of a specific tool is not the same as critiquing participation in capitalist society or consumption of capitalist goods.”
“AIGen” is a specific tool, just like “trains in india”. Your counterpoint was already addressed in the comment you replied to (the one with the trains), if you count “trains in india” as a specific tool like “AI Gen”. Hence my question.
Yeah, I did. And in my response I also laid that out for you. Yet you somehow ignored that and instead pretend using any tool for any reason is what is being discussed now? And you’re taking the side of using any tool for any reason, so can I safely assume you assume killing people is awesome since knives are tools too and they’re used for murder sometimes? I figure that must be the case, since I described the difference between the two “tools” and the specific usecase here, yet that somehow went right past you, so it must not matter to you. Kind of fucked up of you to support people being blown up with dynamite btw. Wild you support using tools to construct F-35s and other bombs used by the imperialist warmachine.
By the way, trains aren’t tools, unless we expand the definition of tool in the context of this discussion to include all modes of transportation, and at that point it seems like an almost pointless descriptor.