Good for you man, but in this case I guess that you’re proud of yourself and in the achievements that helped the people around you.
You don’t have “second hand pride with extra narrative on top” from people that died long before you were born
Collective pride is real and there are a lot examples of it, but it works with small sized groups and when it does it feels great. Because of course we’re a social species, but our monkey brain is built around tribes and doesn’t conceive whole nations.
And that’s why, for example, when I see people cheering for an athlete just because all their parents happened to fuck within the same imaginary lines, I find it really silly.
But I know that’s me, I have no problems with people who have a healthy national pride. I’m just saying I don’t and never had.
When you say “pride in hypotetycal tribal bands that may have never existed” what do you mean? You don’t believe that human beings evolved in tribes or don’t believe the members of these tribes felt a sense of common well-being that we call “pride” which have helped our evolution?
Some of my life-achievements involved contributing to my nation.
Ok, good, that’s you, a productive citizen following the social contract
BUT
Most people who wear the flag and shout that they are patriots have been nothing but leeches on the nation
Good for you man, but in this case I guess that you’re proud of yourself and in the achievements that helped the people around you.
You don’t have “second hand pride with extra narrative on top” from people that died long before you were born
The individualists in this thread are saying:
And I don’t agree with the 2nd premise at all. People are social beings and there’s lots of examples of collective pride.
Collective pride is real and there are a lot examples of it, but it works with small sized groups and when it does it feels great. Because of course we’re a social species, but our monkey brain is built around tribes and doesn’t conceive whole nations. And that’s why, for example, when I see people cheering for an athlete just because all their parents happened to fuck within the same imaginary lines, I find it really silly.
But I know that’s me, I have no problems with people who have a healthy national pride. I’m just saying I don’t and never had.
You’re comparing two things:
Actually observed collective pride in nations
Pride in hypothetical tribal bands that may have never existed
And saying the first is “silly” but the second is what we’re built for.
Understanding collective pride in its actual form is less silly than pushing into some dreamed-of past.
When you say “pride in hypotetycal tribal bands that may have never existed” what do you mean? You don’t believe that human beings evolved in tribes or don’t believe the members of these tribes felt a sense of common well-being that we call “pride” which have helped our evolution?