To explain first, I would like to say that I’m not asking about temps, local flavor, ease of transfer or the like.
My wife and I are stuck in the US while caring for her father. When the inevitable happens, however, we would like to be prepared to head out ASAP. We’ve done a lot of searching but I thought I’d ask here in case someone’s done some legwork for the same goals as us. I traveled a bunch as a kid in the military but that was a very long time ago and I wouldn’t trust my notions of the countries in question to have remained the same.
Basically, a lot of our goals will be achieved just by not being in the US any longer but we’d hate to end up in a spot that’s working hard to emulate the current social and political climate here. Just as an example, we don’t consider a large portion of Europe to be feasible for us due to the widespread tracking, online verification, etc. These aren’t huge points by themselves but does lead one to believe that it’s similar enough in it’s trajectory to warrant concern.
I can answer any questions you might have that may be able to help guide suggestions but I’ll leave it at this for now so I don’t throw too many wrenches in the conversation.
Thanks for your time!
I like how people from richer countries invented the word “expat” just to not refer to themselves as “migrants”
Expat is colloquially used to describe a person who is living abroad on a long term but not permanent basis, so the term “immigrant” would not apply, which is the actual “icky” word they don’t like, not migrant
And it was invented not as an alternative to migrant but rather as a specific circumstance, which is a person who was either banished from, or has served all connection to their prior country. So while this original use would refer to an immigrant, not a migrant, and it just more specifically refers to somebody who migrated under a certain circumstance.
We should all travel back to 1768 and beat that dude’s ass for creating it.
You mean immigrants?
Denmark is the best, but has also been moving in the wrong direction when it comes to surveillance. Not as bad as Germany or the UK though.
Denmark is the best, but has also been moving in the wrong direction when it comes to surveillance.
Thanks very much for your insight. I’ll have to look into what’s going on regarding this in Denmark but this particular aspect is one of the main reasons why we’re wanting to get out. Not it by itself but because of what it’s a symptom of.
The term ExPat has a pretty classist/racist undertone (we are immigrants, but that has a negative connotation so let’s not use that word), but having said my peace on that, Norway. Hands down. Best place. Safe, no one bothers you, etc etc. Taxes are high, but I can start a business without worrying about losing my health insurance so, yeah.
Yup, as an immigrant to Spain I’ve found that people who describe themselves as expats are either unpleasant to be around, or don’t particularly want to integrate
Thanks very much for your suggestion.
Norway. Hands down. Best place. Safe, no one bothers you, etc etc. Taxes are high, but I can start a business without worrying about losing my health insurance so, yeah.
I spent some time there, the people were awesome. Unfortunately I didn’t get to see any of the civilian side of the area we were at. by losing your health insurance, do you just mean that it’s not taken from you for making too much annually?
I mean that there is just universal health care here, so I don’t have to worry like i did in the US about not working a job that offered insurance as a benefit. Therefore, owning a business was always a non-starter for me. But here, it’s something I just never worry about. And I have recently begun the process of opening my own business.
I understand. We’ll lose my service-connected insurance when the move occurs so we are trying to land in a spot with universal health care. We aren’t what one would consider well off so we would benefit greatly from it.
Best of luck on your business endeavor!
Agree with the comment about expats. I was an immigrant in the US and I continue to be an immigrant, though I refuse to call myself American since I can’t even renew my US passport due to being trans.
Canada is wonderful and close culturally and geographically. No country is perfect and everyone is dealing with various levels of fascism, Canada nonetheless, but I do love it here. I’ve had absolutely zero trouble creating connections and have only felt welcome. The people are lovely, the food is delicious, and there’s lots to enjoy.
I’ve only ever heard good things about the people of Canada. Could I ask how you handle the weather though? Looking at average temps and snowfall, it looks like a bunch of Canada is cold a lot of the year? Did you come from a similar climate or were you able to simply adjust to the winters/snow?
Vancouver is very temperate and very nice, climate wise, and outright hot during the summer
That said, climate change will make everywhere warm
I handle extreme heat better than extreme cold. That being said, where I’m at in VA is going to be 99 with a feels like of 110 and its a very muggy heat which makes me want to hide inside.
I came from a similar climate
This summer has been brutal though, it was literally hotter than Texas yesterday 😂
Canada is awful, you wouldn’t like it.
Bit controversial to say, but Mexico isn’t all that bad. It’s cheap, it has all the amenities of the US until you get well into the boonies, and they’re currently implementing free healthcare. From what real news I can get from outside the fascist echo chamber, Sheinbaum is like a national level Mamdani when it comes to progressive successes. With the US too stupid to do the usual cripple job, Mexico has a genuine chance to join the adult table in the next decade or so.
We’re considering Mexico and we’re attracted to the boonies. I do wonder how Mexican boonies compare to 'Murican boonies.
It depends heavily on the region. Mexico has states like the US and also like the US they range from California modern to Alabama backwood.
Do you happen to be aware of an area that would be similar to western NC or Eastern TN, with something like the Appalachian mountain ranges and the ability to disappear into the woods?
Why controversial?
Its an amazing country yo live in and unless you’re into drug dealing, its safer to live in than the USA
The one priblemnis income, its still very low there, but conversely, prices are generally low too. If you have a US kind of income, while living there, you’re a king
Controversal because most of the people I’ve brought it up to in the midwest still warn you not to drink the water and see it as the dusty brown cowboy land where drug cartels wheel around shooting at white people.
In the interest of addressing stereotypes - I’m Midwestern, and “don’t drink the water!” is still something associated with Mexico in my head. Granted, parts of the US could have the same warning apply! Has this improved over the last decade or two? I remember on a recent trip to San Diego, we had to be careful what beaches we visited because the southern beaches periodically got sewage from dumping south of the border.
I also recall stories of white people (especially obvious foreigners) being targeted for kidnappings, with the assumption that they’re rich - is this rare, then? Or limited to certain parts of the country?
So I looked it up and, no surprise, it seems to be a lot of propaganda. In the last 5 years there has been a handful of cases. This year a couple was kidnapped by unaffiliated criminals on the confirmation that they had several internal accounts. The perpetrators killed them and impersonated them to drain their accounts. An influencer with dual citizenship was kidnapped at gunpoint from her custom lavender cyber truck. Assumibly to ransom her or extort her for for money hased on her incredibly lavish Instagram lifestyle.
Those are spot on. The part where it gets dodgy is the reports of cartel involvement and targeting US citizens indiscriminately. The two cases in the last year that targeted Americans that weren’t flaunting their wealth were actually both associated with immigration. The father of 4 immigrated and married a citizen and was kidnapped to extort that. The young woman was kidnapped by the smuggling group her fiance paid to bring her to the US. Both cases, it was locala targeting locals that had americans in the splash zone so the news spun it as “targeting the whites”
The one cartel situation involved 4 kidnapped tourists. The cartel outright stated that it was their agents who were working outside of their orders. It’s speculated that the 4 were mistaken for rival drug traffickers. Knowing the news here rarely admits that white people are common mules and I didn’t see a lot of info about their personal lives, I’d speculate they were either there to transport drugs or were poking around where they shouldn’t.
All in all, stay away from drugs, don’t look rich, and avoid bad neighborhoods. It’s the same stranger danger we use here. The only reason kidnapping for ransom isn’t equally strong here is because we live in a surveillance state that only cares about money. You attack a rich person and the rich people pay their politicians to make an example of you.
dont you mean immigrants, expats dont want to be labeled immigrants because of racist reasons just like cuban, venuezulean calling themselves expats because they are not"like the other immigrants like mexicans)
Let me start by saying that some of my best coworkers are American immigrants. They are hard working, humble, and always willing to learn local customs. However, these are highly skilled workers who secured a job ahead of time, and they contribute to the local economy.
Then we have loads of economic migrants from the US. They distort the local market, especially housing, and instead of assimilating to the local culture they try to impose their norms on us.
I always welcome the first group of migrants and vehemently oppose the second group. So, if you are coming to work and in exchange enjoy the benefits of a more humanistic and social system, you’re welcome. Otherwise the locals will try to make your stay quite unpleasant.
I understand your sentiment completely. My intention is to be as invisible as possible and make little to no social impact, which is how I behave here as well. In IRL, I’m nice to everyone I meet and I don’t think I ever participate in any discussion that would include me providing my opinion on a topic, regardless of whether or not I feel informed about it. I leave that for everyone else, lend an ear if it looks like they need to say something and then just non-commitally nod that I understood them. It’s a rare occurrence as I don’t interact with many people outside of stores or wife and child. If my life continues it’s current trajectory, the locals will hopefully not even be aware of my existence.
I’m not sure what an economic migrant is. Does that mean moving to a country because they want a bigger impact of their money to live a fancy lifestyle or does it mean moving because they need a cheaper economy to live? As for distorting the market, I don’t think that’s a risk as we will be working out of necessity and don’t have a bunch in the way of savings. We’re not what the US would call wealthy or even well-off. I guess we fit square in the center of middle-class but that will drop when moving.
Thank you very much for your thoughts.
You guessed right with the economic migrants. Americans aren’t the only ones doing it, though. In Europe, it’s primarily the British moving to Spain and Portugal, but others do it, too.
In terms of trying to influence local customs: this ranges from very blatant (canvassing or campaigning in favour of socially conservative causes) to seemingly innocent, but so common that people are annoyed about them even more (trying to introduce American tipping culture to pubs and restaurants). Usually the best people in this regard are well-traveled Americans who already lived abroad. Of those, by far the best adjusted are children of former military personnel stationed abroad.
Thanks very much for the clarification and insight.
I’m currently working with an agency in the Czech Republic to move to Prague. It’s been a pain in the ass compared to China and Korea, but I’m hoping it will be worth it. I have an appointment to drop off my long term visa application in a couple weeks, so hopefully I can get out soon. Keep your fingers crossed for me.
If my application gets denied, my backup plan is to get an agency to help me find a job in either Spain or Japan.
All my fingers and toes are crossed for you, I hope it works out.
I’d never thought of working with an agency of some sort. That’s an avenue I should definitely explore.
I really liked Prague but loved(and I mean loved) Japan. I spent most of my time in Okinawa but also spent some months at Fuji with weekends in Tokyo. The whole vibe of it was very nice.
Best of luck on your approval!
Expats
That’s a weird way to spell “emigrant”…
If you were asking for people from any country who moved to the same one you’re going, you’d use “immigrant”.
But if you run around calling yourself a “US expat” …
People will base their initial opinion of you on the way you introduce yourself, and that’s not a good thing with how you’re introducing yourself.
Expat is the term used by immigrants who think they’re better than the bad immigrants because they come from the good countries. At least that’s how it is in my country. Usually they’re the worse kind of immigrants because they refuse to integrate.
An immigrant joins a country
An emigrant leaves a country
OP doesn’t know where they’re going, just that they’re leaving a country. Because of that “potential emigrant” is the pedantically correct term for now.
When/if OP enters another country, he would be an immigrant to that country and an emigrant from the US.
They say “expat” in new country because they don’t want to call themselves immigrants searching for a better life, even when they’re open about that being what they’re doing. And they get to keep “US” in front of it which is a huge bonus for some people despite America’s reputation.
But once over there when talking to people also over there, they should be identifying as an immigrant.
Doing anything else, is only going to make friends with other “US expats” like the boomer communities in Mexico where no one speaks Spanish and they put zero effort into fitting in. Wherever you go that paints a target on your back, not just for outright crime, but to get taken advantage of by locals at every opportunity.
Ironically they’re often liable to keep complaining about how immigrants don’t try to integrate in America, even after leaving.
They just want to live somewhere that they’re “rich” compared to everyone else.
What if they call every one an expat? Something tells me those people you speak of will hold those opinions regardless of what OP does.
Thanks for the bump.
Not sure what you mean by “bump”
But I was being serious, don’t run around calling yourself an expat unless you want people to assume you’re racist and that you think lesser of all your new neighbors
It would be a very bad time for you personally, you would be alienating everyone in your new community.
But you go off I guess
Thanks for the bump.
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Removed by mod
Thanks for the bump.
Apparently “bump” is what 4chan calls replies?
Which honestly lines up with the “expat” and repeating the same reply over and over again. So since you won’t explain I gotta go with that assumption and am.juat gonna block.
I truly hope you succeed in leaving America and that you can do it quickly.
Specifically, it ‘bumps’ the thread back up to the top of the list and keeps it from aging out for longer. The context here is ‘thanks for signal boosting my opinion with engagement’
Thanks for the bump.
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ITT: illiterates who don’t understand the difference between the terms migrant, immigrant, and expatriate.
Canada, Spain, Germany, Portugal, hell even UK
Thanks for the suggestions. Germany’s nice , I’ve never been to Portugal but the UK is out for the reasons I mentioned initially. Some of the reasons we want to move is to get away from the dystopian tracking that’s coming to fruition here.
ITT: OP carefully ignores all criticism and really doesn’t want to consider themself an immigrant.
Hey buddy, youre not an expat. You’re a white supremacist.
England because I’m both a expat and not an expat at the same time.
